tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post6839170488988657295..comments2023-12-24T05:26:48.861-05:00Comments on The Pittsburgh Comet: Comet Sunday Magazine: Lower Hill, Over Sight and Transit TransitionBram Reichbaumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-70009534877307828612013-09-11T21:14:38.055-04:002013-09-11T21:14:38.055-04:00On the cap: I am going to take a date out to Burge...On the cap: I am going to take a date out to Burger King and buy her a medium of order onion rings. I'll tell her, "Next door, if you want, I'll let you buy yourself some fillet mignon stuffed with truffles! Your place or mine?"<br /><br />It would be very nice, having a cap like that. One day taxpayers, philanthropists and well-meaning corporations might together invest in it. I'm sure if one got approved and built, it wouldn't be dangerous at all. But it's not a part of the Pens' investment, it's not an idea specific to (or that originated in) their plans, and it's not a necessary component to the Pens' profitability in this project I wager (that's why it won't appear anytime soon on anyone's time table. Some time after Curtain Call.)Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-79747642319507038282013-09-10T19:17:45.498-04:002013-09-10T19:17:45.498-04:00Interesting how so many people criticize the Pens,...Interesting how so many people criticize the Pens, the SEA and others for wanting public money for this project. Some have even suggested that ideas like the cap over the CTB are pipe dreams because of lack of funding and sequester. But then those same people seem to conveniently forget that any reuse of the Igloo would have faced the same problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-55791065761313253932013-09-10T13:39:47.150-04:002013-09-10T13:39:47.150-04:00Brian: Firstly I don't recall this period wher...Brian: Firstly I don't recall this period where arena preservationists attacked the Penguins plan as unreasonably good. Perhaps the revenue projections, but not the plans certainly? Unless I am mistaken. Secondly in case anyone is under the wrong impression this blog author never argued for arena preservation. I did suggest the fix was in to demolish and that it qualified for historic designation, necessitating the SEA going through another process justifying what they were doing, and at least formally exploring mitigating compromises (preserving a portion of it, perhaps just one leaf, as public art reminder of the history and perils of urban redevelopment). Thirdly if you find skeptical talk about the cap "disgusting" (strong word!), you have to blame the Penguins. Every time I have seen or read them put on the spot about it, to their credit, they haven't been able to summon a particular brave face or bold words. And fourth, before we go estimating cost and feasibility compared to Dallas, we need to compare the spans respective widths, the gradients, and the financing power of the two communities in their two respective financing ages. Again, if the Pens aren't intending to pay for it I don't see why it should be in their PLDP. If we want to build a deck, and can, then we can build a deck one day sure. But just because Congressman Doyle suggested it a few years ago, now the Penguins get to take credit for it and imply that is what their special zoning, master planning and continued subsidy requests will bring? Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-91323385665703229392013-09-10T08:18:20.159-04:002013-09-10T08:18:20.159-04:00The ICA seems to be a redundant agency that is jus...The ICA seems to be a redundant agency that is just sucking out more public dollars that could be better utilized elsewhere. Legislators were not happy with Pittsburgh taking "advantage" of Act 47 so the ICA was their reaction to "punish" Pittsburgh for following the law that was in place at the time.<br /><br />They (the legislative branch) seem to have no problem with giving public dollars to their buddies with ideas like the ICA and the lax rules they have in place for themselves when it comes to per diems.<br /><br />I didn't like the way the county executive was pushing the previously established board to act in anything but an independent manner; but, that did not deserve the response from the state on restructuring the board. Now, they have hobbled every county executive that follows the current one. It is, after all, the Port Authority of ALLEGHENY COUNTY. If the state wanted to send a message, it should have been in the form of budget restrictions (which does fall under the legislative purview).<br /><br />Too much of circumventing the separation of powers lately at all levels of government (Burgess at the city level, the ICA legislation, the Port Authority restructuring, and executive decrees that take the legislative branch (and hence, the people's voice) out of any debates).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-62169069238432538422013-09-10T02:40:48.192-04:002013-09-10T02:40:48.192-04:00Brian, you're also welcome to email me at pitt...Brian, you're also welcome to email me at pittsburghersforpublictransit@gmail.com. Along with Bram and other readers here at the Comet, I've very much appreciated the logic, policy analysis, and "granularity" of factuality you contribute to this comment section, you concerned citizen, you.Helen Gerhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010369817073080001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-87722563343395911942013-09-10T01:02:22.203-04:002013-09-10T01:02:22.203-04:00Thanks, Helen! It would obviously be great if som...Thanks, Helen! It would obviously be great if some SPC staff wanted to participate in this discussion (even if at a bit of a remove).BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-1484480205539986612013-09-10T00:59:23.156-04:002013-09-10T00:59:23.156-04:00"Because I'm the first writer on the hist..."Because I'm the first writer on the history of the world to let sources go off the record."<br /><br />And I'm not the first reader to think that sometimes writers abuse that option. Indeed, I would suggest consumers of public commentary should pretty much ALWAYS at least ask themselves why some anonymous source wanted to remain anonymous.<br /><br />"And bringing up the arena demolition seems like a left-field way to put 'progressives' on the defensive"<br /><br />I certainly don't think of the issue in that way at all. "Progressives" covers a lot of territory, and I think there were a lot of progressives who were anywhere from reluctantly to enthusiastically in favor of demolishing the Civic Arena. Conversely, I suspect a lot of the people at least casually in favor of saving it would not self-identify as progressives.<br /><br />So if anyone is feeling "defensive," it should just be those people, "progessive" or no, who have a tendency to root against the very possibility of good things happening in Pittsburgh whenever things aren't going precisely the way they would want them to go.<br /><br />"though I still happen to think the re-use attempts were doomed from the start because everybody at the SEA and City waved off all interest"<br /><br />No, they were doomed by the fact the Civic Arena couldn't reasonably be reused as anything but an arena, and as soon as Consol was built it was rendered redundant for that purpose. If they had ever come up with a better plan than what the Penguins were presenting, maybe that dynamic would have been different, but despite a long, sustained effort, they could never meet that goal.<br /><br />I know it is hard even now for some people to give up that fight, but I credit the Reuse folks with doing their best to come up with compelling alternatives, and as you know, there were some pretty sophisticated people and entities contributing to that project. Which is precisely why the manifest suckiness of their proposed alternatives was so telling: if they couldn't do better, likely no one good. <br /><br />"Now, since identity is important to you on principle, who are you and what do you do?"<br /><br />Ah, but typically I do NOT care if people commenting here wish to remain anonymous. But when people commenting here start making arguments from authority, then I think it becomes fair game to wonder exactly who these authorities might be.<br /><br />In contrast, I'm not asking anyone to take anything I say on my personal authority. Rather, I ask only that people give the logic, policy analysis, and factual claims I am presenting fair consideration on their own merits.<br /><br />In that sense, the relevant answer to your question is that I am just a concerned citizen. And in fact I am happy to admit my actual profession has almost no relevance to any of these discussions, so I am nothing but an amateur.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-14946341778886292662013-09-10T00:35:00.337-04:002013-09-10T00:35:00.337-04:00"I'm addressing the need for that stretch..."I'm addressing the need for that stretch of Centre Avenue affected by the Penguin development to remain a functional multimodal throughway in light of its crucial role as main connector between the Hill and downtown."<br /><br />That's a reasonable issue, albeit not one that supports Bram's original accusations.<br /><br />However, I would note there is an awful lot of literature on what is sometimes called "road diets", and it turns out it is not at all clear that losing a couple lanes from a six-lane urban street is contradictory with that goal, or indeed will necessarily do much to reduce peak vehicular throughput. It is really a complex topic--slowing down traffic and reducing the number of conflicts (e.g., lane changes), along with some smart signalization changes and so forth, can even result in a higher real-world peak capacity, or at least a very minimal reduction in peak capacity with lots of other benefits.<br /><br />And in fact slowing down traffic and reducing conflicts will almost certainly make Centre a better biking road than it is now, although again I would be interested in seeing a detailed assessment of whether a bike lane makes sense as well.<br /><br />All this is really just a good demonstration of how the concept of "complete streets" is really just a starting point--it frames the issues in a certain way, and identifies certain pathologies that existed in prior eras of urban road planning, but otherwise a great deal of case-by-case work needs to be done to figure out what really makes the most sense on any given bit of urban road.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-73981391181345460712013-09-10T00:21:05.140-04:002013-09-10T00:21:05.140-04:00"Firstly, there are no dimensions for an impr..."Firstly, there are no dimensions for an improved Centre Ave anyway."<br /><br />Indeed, for someone who originally made such sweeping accusations about the whole street grid plan, doesn't it seem odd you are only discussing Centre, which is an established street not actually within the development site itself?<br /><br />"Secondly they took down LowerHillTiger.com... yesterday."<br /><br />Too bad our local commentariat was more interested in "political rhetoric" and not so much in the actual susbtance of the TIGER application while it was ongoing.<br /><br />"Yes I am saying that a complete approach for a street that is a vaunted historic and sole connector should have more than pedestrians and cars in mind."<br /><br />Right, you apparently think Centre should have a bike lane, which might well be a good idea (or not--when bike lanes make sense is a fairly complex topic).<br /><br />But that thought simply does not provide a basis for your original accusation, and I think it is safe to conclude at this point that no such basis is going to be forthcoming.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-57046033055398388432013-09-10T00:13:00.438-04:002013-09-10T00:13:00.438-04:00Yes, you do, if you want to do more with this blog...Yes, you do, if you want to do more with this blog than preach to the choir.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-10868739161404515122013-09-09T15:42:52.997-04:002013-09-09T15:42:52.997-04:00@BrianTH
The two SPC staff that I met with to gat...@BrianTH<br /><br />The two SPC staff that I met with to gather more information on the Penguin development are Sarah Walfoort, Transportation Planning Manager at 412-391-5590 swalfoort@spcregion.org, and Matt Pavlosky at (412) 391-5590, Ext. 361, or mpavlosky@spcregion.org. <br /><br />I spoke with Sarah this morning and invited her to review these comments and let me know any concerns she might have about misrepresentation of the information they provided me - unfortunately Matt is out of town. I'll be sure to correct any misrepresentations on my part that I hear back from them.Helen Gerhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010369817073080001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-63163314679710500762013-09-09T15:30:31.317-04:002013-09-09T15:30:31.317-04:00@BrianTH
You write of the smartgrowthamerica.org ...@BrianTH<br /><br />You write of the smartgrowthamerica.org published position on complete streets parameters: <br /><br /><i>Notably, it does not say every complete street MUST include a bike lane AND a bus lane AND everything else on the list.</i><br /><br />Certainly, as public transit advocate, I'm not lobbying for such universality - I'm addressing the need for that stretch of Centre Avenue affected by the Penguin development to remain a functional multimodal throughway in light of its crucial role as main connector between the Hill and downtown. <br /><br />Brian, I very much appreciate that you continue to provide a still-active PDF link to the primary documents of Penguin plans for this development. I hope the cache remains available - it's of real concern to me that the active site was shut down on Sunday. Why remove an active link to the documents that I believe to be the main source of public information on plans that will have important public impact? Helen Gerhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010369817073080001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-3368952831900105392013-09-09T10:58:53.495-04:002013-09-09T10:58:53.495-04:00I'm not even sure what the ICA does. I'm ...I'm not even sure what the ICA does. I'm relatively pleased with the Port Authority, because the 61D (Greenfield Only) has made my life easier.MHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-26611569332796336212013-09-09T09:25:19.230-04:002013-09-09T09:25:19.230-04:00Does anyone have anything to say about the ICA or ...Does anyone have anything to say about the ICA or the Port Authority board? I feel like a tennis match with one commentator on a couple points related one one topic is dominating the discussion.<br /><br />Starting now I'm going to try to give up commenting on my own posts for Jewish Lent. Who knows, maybe more persons will experience an urge to chime in to defend similar positions.Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-82349612682113315692013-09-09T08:33:47.445-04:002013-09-09T08:33:47.445-04:00Because I'm the first writer on the history of...Because I'm the first writer on the history of the world to let sources go off the record. And they're traffic planners not architects. And it hardly matters anymore because I didn't haunt the comments repeatedly with them and my arguments don't rely on them anymore. And bringing up the arena demolition seems like a left-field way to put "progressives" on the defensive as though this is about one particular political group, and it is the last context in which anyone remembers a Penguins' planning position enjoying support (though I still happen to think the re-use attempts were doomed from the start because everybody at the SEA and City waved off all interest.) Now, since identity is important to you on principle, who are you and what do you do?Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-28328150246875584912013-09-09T08:29:02.151-04:002013-09-09T08:29:02.151-04:00Would you want people to know your name and the fa...Would you want people to know your name and the fact that you got paid to design what passes for transportation here?MHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-59136140270202004602013-09-09T08:26:34.350-04:002013-09-09T08:26:34.350-04:00Disagree.
Firstly, there are no dimensions for an...Disagree.<br /><br />Firstly, there are no dimensions for an improved Centre Ave anyway. Secondly they took down LowerHillTiger.com... yesterday. Thirdly by your definition any street with like, elements and stuff, we have to call complete enough. Yes I am saying that a complete approach for a street that is a vaunted historic and sole connector should have more than pedestrians and cars in mind. Especially if you can extend the street limitlessly on one side and if the pedeatrian elements are super overboard. That's a pretty sturdy limb.Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-83682685235214657852013-09-09T08:19:45.512-04:002013-09-09T08:19:45.512-04:00I have to explain that? Really? In the context of ...I have to explain that? Really? In the context of the Lower Hill?Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-25068005376875799232013-09-09T02:43:41.089-04:002013-09-09T02:43:41.089-04:00By the way, the dynamic noted by Anon at 6:16 date...By the way, the dynamic noted by Anon at 6:16 dates at least back to the debate over the Civic Arena demolition. To review what happened back then, those who wanted to preserve the Arena were given ample opportunity to try to come up with a competitive reuse plan, and they ultimately failed, rather dramatically.<br /><br />So, as a last ditch effort, they resorted to attacking the Penguins' proposal as unrealistically good, the idea being that maybe their ideas for reusing the Arena were obviously crappy, but that was really the best that could be done in crappy ole' Pittsburgh.<br /><br />And yes, it was a pretty disgusting turn of events, and unfortunately I agree we are seeing signs of that dynamic continuing in these discussions as well. In fact, I have my suspicions that perhaps some of the unnamed "professional transportation planners" haunting these comments may have been involved in both episodes.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-52754155287774797382013-09-09T02:34:04.841-04:002013-09-09T02:34:04.841-04:00So I am noticing repeated references to unnamed &q...So I am noticing repeated references to unnamed "professional transportation planners" in the comments here. Exactly why can't these people be named?BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-50966740403749771922013-09-09T02:27:13.733-04:002013-09-09T02:27:13.733-04:00The reason to do it is that it would make it much ...The reason to do it is that it would make it much more pleasant for pedestrians going back and forth, and likely would considerably raise property values on either side (which could potentially result in a nice financial return for the City).<br /><br />Again, a lot of the scare-mongering here about collapses and such indicates a lack of familiarity with the fact this has already been done before. You do have to calculate the weight of what you are putting on top to make sure you are comfortably within the load-bearing capabilities of what is basically an overpass, but if there is one thing we understand very, very well, it is how to engineer and construct overpasses.<br /><br />By the way, unfortunately, the Penguins were not asked to commit to paying the infrastructure costs in the Consol/Lower Hill deal. No doubt that deal was a very crappy one for the public, but there is consequently going to be a lot of stuff that actually happens that the Penguins don't pay for.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-55719127668897863352013-09-09T02:13:59.476-04:002013-09-09T02:13:59.476-04:00Bram is writing as if deck-parks have not been don...Bram is writing as if deck-parks have not been done over urban freeways before. But to give one example:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klyde_Warren_Park<br /><br />The essential costs actually aren't that high--you are basically just constructing the equivalent of a wide overpass bridge. I might note the space between the two Crosstown bridges where such a deck-park would go is considerably smaller than the space spanned in the Dallas project--on the order of 1/3.<br /><br />The Dallas project ended up costing about $110 million, a good chunk of which was for the amenities and such on top (which were done very nicely). So I'd suggest a good estimate would be that the Pittsburgh project would cost around $40 million, give or take depending on what exactly you wanted to do with the space on top.<br /><br />So no, this idea is not a "joke" or inherently "pie in the sky." What is true, however, is that the Penguins and SEA have not committed to putting any money toward this project.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-36603570379521720992013-09-09T01:55:58.892-04:002013-09-09T01:55:58.892-04:00Again, complaining there is not enough dedicated b...Again, complaining there is not enough dedicated bike infrastructure and too much sidewalk space and pedestrian amenities is not a complete streets versus incomplete streets debate, it is a debate about what sort of complete streets you want to see.<br /><br />That, in a nutshell, is why I am so "confident" in rejecting the "absolutism" YOU displayed originally. Your original assertion this wasn't a complete streets plan was and remains completely unfounded. And arguing there should be a bit less focus on pedestrians and a bit more provision for dedicated bikeways is not a defense of your original absolutism.<br /><br />As far as demonstrating why this is clearly a type a complete streets plan, even if not exactly the one you would personally prefer, I don't really think I can improve much on pointing people, again, to Section 3 of the draft PDLP:<br /><br />http://www.lowerhilltiger.com/LowerHillTigerAttachments/images/Lower.Hill.PLDP.draft.5.30.2013.pdf<br /><br />Here is the SGA intro to complete streets:<br /><br />http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/complete-streets/complete-streets-fundamentals/complete-streets-faq<br /><br />To put the disclaimer you quoted in context:<br /><br />"There is no singular design prescription for Complete Streets; each one is unique and responds to its community context. A complete street may include: sidewalks, bike lanes (or wide paved shoulders), special bus lanes, comfortable and accessible public transportation stops, frequent and safe crossing opportunities, median islands, accessible pedestrian signals, curb extensions, narrower travel lanes, roundabouts, and more."<br /><br />Notably, it does not say every complete street MUST include a bike lane AND a bus lane AND everything else on the list. Of course, that would be ridiculous. And if you look through the entire list of streets discussed in Section 3, there are many different elements on that list being included.<br /><br />So what is an "incomplete street", if "complete streets" can mean so many different things? Again, from the same page, an incomplete street is defined as: "those designed with only cars in mind."<br /><br />Can an intellectually honest person look at Section 3 and claim in good faith that those streets were designed "with only cars in mind"? No.<br /><br />So yes, I am "confident" that your original "absolutism" was simply wrong. And there is no intellectually honest way to defend those original accusations.BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-77340071639373489112013-09-09T01:39:43.922-04:002013-09-09T01:39:43.922-04:00The SEA, Planning Commission, and City Council can...The SEA, Planning Commission, and City Council can all be lobbied directly on the merits of the sorts of things you would like to see happen (e.g., a 30% low-income housing requirement). In so doing, you should be explaining why that would be a virtuous public policy. BrianTHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1588280325775325323.post-49987803793733735122013-09-08T20:10:38.491-04:002013-09-08T20:10:38.491-04:00Even in the lottery-ticket distant future sense, t...Even in the lottery-ticket distant future sense, the Penguins never implied they'd pay for the cap. Why is it even in their PLDP? It's like a restaurant that advertises, "Buy a cheeseburger and get free fries, coffee and desert! All you have to do is bring your own fries, coffee and desert."<br /><br />And by the way, <b>Anon 6:16</b>, don't try to affix this skepticism to "progressives". Conservatives, most Hill residents and most informed humans without personal special interest fall into the same category of seeing this load for what it is. Pittsburgh deserves better than being pillaged like this, and it's not a choice only between this and surface parking for 10 years -- even though that's still your best argument.Bram Reichbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05620172942925293407noreply@blogger.com