Sunday, October 16, 2011

Indeed.


[This is why the movement needs time. This is just like, one little issue.]
Posted by at

37 comments:

  1. rich10eOctober 16, 2011 at 2:58 PM

    Drop the blame for a lot of that sub prime garbage on guys like Sen.Chris Dodd and Jim Johnson from Fannie Mae!! Better yet read Reckless Endangerment by Gretchen Morgenson!
    The Dems, OWS allies, promoted so much of the mortgage crisis thru crony capitalism and regulatory interference!

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  2. Antiquated ToryOctober 16, 2011 at 5:14 PM

    W and the Republicans loved it too, dude. EVERYBODY loved it in a truly bipartisan fashion. It made more people property owners! It turned common homeowners into capitalist investors! It made people richer without paying them more money! What could possibly go wrong?

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  3. AnonymousOctober 16, 2011 at 7:32 PM

    IMHO - what Occupy Wall Street should do is find one, MAYBE two, very concrete objectives and push hard until they get it. Even though it leaves a lot on the table, once you get ONE thing done that no one thought could be accomplished, you can move on to something else. Then, all you have to do is call for other change and elected officials will listen. If they push for too much or vague and over broad messages now, they will accomplish nothing.

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  4. MHOctober 16, 2011 at 8:49 PM

    EVERYBODY loved it in a truly bipartisan fashion.

    One of Bush's big brags was how much the home ownership rates had increased.

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  5. rich10eOctober 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM

    read..then talk

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  6. MHOctober 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM

    Read what? To the best of my knowledge, I rarely stop doing either.

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  7. Bram ReichbaumOctober 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM

    Rich - The Occupants seem like they're going to righteously and spitefully resist any effort to be co-opted by the Democratic Party and its timid, incremental agenda of addressing symptoms instead of diseases. If you hear of any events at which Occupy Pgh teams up with elected or empowered Democrats, rest assured those who wind up on hand will only be a variously motivated subset and only for discreet tactics.

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  8. Bram ReichbaumOctober 17, 2011 at 12:20 PM

    I am trying to figure out if the "People's Lobby", One Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh UNITED and the SEIU (I think that's the correct ascending order) are going to join in solidarity with Occupy Pittsburgh at any of its actions against BNY Mellon, Federated Investors, UPMC and Education Management Corporation.

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  9. rich10eOctober 17, 2011 at 1:34 PM

    If we were to deal with the disease we'd have do away with elected officials!!

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  10. MHOctober 17, 2011 at 1:56 PM

    And get royalty? Or can we just get new elected officials.

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  11. rich10eOctober 18, 2011 at 11:54 AM

    i'd be happy with term limited new officials..as we all know the true royalty sits in congress

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  12. EdHeathOctober 18, 2011 at 12:22 PM

    Term limits cut both ways. Experienced Representatives and Senators know the rules and how to do things. I think far more important is the amount of money in the political system now, which can corrupt both new and long term elected officials. The current crop of freshman Tea Party Representatives are advocating economic ideas which bear little resemblance to the reality independent economists (i.e, those who *don't* sit on the boards of corporations or banks) see. *Maybe* the Tea Party isn't bought and paid for, but they certainly behaving as if they are.

    rich, you want us to read only the texts you tell us to? What's your agenda?

    Meanwhile, most of the economic advisers of the Obama administration have connections to banks and corporations. OWS has good reason to keep both parties at arm's length, unfortunately.

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  13. AnonymousOctober 18, 2011 at 9:16 PM

    And in addition "I didn't say anything when my 401k and pension were up 100 points and took advantage of the 5 percent interest mortgage to buy a house I can't afford but now that all these people are out here blaming someone else and getting good press I just had to come out in my skinny jeans and kate spade purse and show this sign."

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  14. AnonymousOctober 18, 2011 at 9:22 PM

    Which brings us back full circle. When someone buys a bunch of crap that somebody else put a lot of energy into making look good, do you blame the folks buying it or do you blame the folks selling it?

    As long as we're digging backword, maybe "caviat emptor" needs to change to "vendoriat emptor".

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  15. MHOctober 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM

    And if we hadn't spent $800 billion plus whatever bailing out the richer of the two parties in those transactions, you'd have a point.

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  16. rich10eOctober 19, 2011 at 1:22 AM

    Eduardo, experience gets us people like John Murtha ,Barney Frank,Chris Dodd Charlie Rangel.and i agree that too much money corrupts the system, that why its imperative to trim the size of all gov'ts....and also Ed could the econonmics ideas of the tea party be any less job creating than the tripe we're being fed by Obama, Geitner and Bernanke?? And Ed, please read whatever you want!

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  17. TTOctober 19, 2011 at 2:02 AM

    Key point -> misleadingly rated loans

    How did that happen folks?

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  18. Bram ReichbaumOctober 19, 2011 at 2:07 AM

    TT - Mr. Null Space has a chart--> http://nullspace2.blogspot.com/2011/10/protest-what.html

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  19. Bram ReichbaumOctober 19, 2011 at 2:10 AM

    rich10e - "Government has a problem," does not necessarily mean "Trim the size!"

    But your point is under advisement all the same. If our economic reach is now so muscularly conceived as to be trying to manage the world economy as well as rescue companies "Too big to fail" a second time, maybe we ought to wind that down and live and let live.

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  20. EdHeathOctober 19, 2011 at 12:13 PM

    Bram, we tried live and let die with Lehman Brothers in September of 2008. The resulting market free fall probably was caused more by the impending collapse of AIG and possibly Citibank and others as by Lehman's demise. Ignoring too big to fail is fine if only one big bank/financial institution is in trouble, but when the system is teetering on the brink?

    Ricardo, when all you list are experienced Democrats and when you slam Obama, Geitner and Bernanke as feeding us tripe, you clearly are only interested in advancing Republican talking points rather than finding solutions. I mean, the only people I see with credibility have acknowledged the stimulus was too small to achieve what was desired, but the CBO says it did save/create between one and a half to three million jobs. I am unaware of any specific "econonmics ideas of the tea party", but the idea that cutting regulations, repealing the ACA, cutting taxes for the rich and cutting spending (i.e. unemployment compensation, food stamps, Medicare and Social Security) will create jobs is pure fantasy. But please, show me historical examples of that occurring.

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  21. AnonymousOctober 19, 2011 at 12:26 PM

    I have a four year old child. For dinner each night she generally eats what we prepare. One night, she defiantly said she doesn't like what we served. "What would you like to eat?" I ask. "Cookies", she responds. I explain that cookies are for dessert, and that she may have a fruit or vegetable, or yogurt or she can eat what is on her plate. “I don’t want what’s on my plate”, she says curtly. I repeat her options, but again, she does not choose. The “occupy” movement is very much like my four year old: lots of noise about what they don’t like, but dead silence on options or solutions, aside from that old chestnut, “the system sucks and needs to be replaced”. Some Americans are anxious and uneasy. Anyone dope see that. But this “Occupy” nonsense is the collective equivalent of my four year old pitching a tantrum at the dinner table because I had the audacity to serve a healthy, balanced meal. For five weeks, this tantrum has received hours of coverage and through it all I haven’t heard a single tangible and consensus solution that doesn’t first begin with blowing the whole thing up and starting again. All of this energetic protesting, catchy sloganeering, and sympathetic media coverage is meaningless unless the angry mob articulates a vision for America that is clearly defined, practical, achievable, and unique. Enough already!

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  22. AnonymousOctober 19, 2011 at 12:38 PM

    Not another David Brooks wannabe! Or is that Dave Barry?

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  23. MHOctober 19, 2011 at 12:49 PM

    For five weeks, this tantrum has received hours of coverage and through it all I haven’t heard a single tangible and consensus solution that doesn’t first begin with blowing the whole thing up and starting again.

    I've been alive for forty years and I've never heard a single tangible, consensus solution for any economic problem. That's absurd.

    The rules have tilted too far in favor of capital and too far away from helping labor. I have no idea if OWS will work (I have my doubts), but something will happen sooner or later.

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  24. rich10eOctober 19, 2011 at 1:07 PM

    Ed show me some examples of repeated stimulus and outright fraud (GREEN ENERGY)that has created long term jobs...Bram the demand for increased tax revenues so gov't officials can fail in their oversight is foolish...the financial mismanagement at the federal level, the tens of billions that have literally fallen through the cracks, (and into the pockets of European banks) demands that they have less control over money than ever before...foolish regulations, such as the the delta smelt and the corn based ethanol severely impacts food prices..the central valley in CA is devastated...too big to survive is more like it

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  25. AnonymousOctober 19, 2011 at 5:11 PM

    Anon 12:26 - You're comparing what we're getting to a healthy, balanced meal (or meal options) prepared by loving, responsible parents???

    Again: solutions are hard. Give it time. (Or, don't give it any, we'll take as much as we need).

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  26. AnonymousOctober 20, 2011 at 10:34 AM

    OWS is leftist led financed and promoted by the
    leftist President. Any attempt to cast these
    protesters as the flip side of the tea party
    is disingenuous! The democratic party's embrace
    of these disturbances is a disgrace.Doogie Shields
    asks why arent more elected officials involved ? Because
    Doogie these protesters are disturbing your tax
    paying workers , your public safety people,
    and wasting our tax dollars. That's why come
    January Doogie can join them fool- time!!!

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  27. Bram ReichbaumOctober 20, 2011 at 12:31 PM

    "OWS is leftist led financed and promoted by the leftist President."

    If that's a sentence, I'd say it's only about one quarter to three eights correct. It's definitely leftist, but it's only a wee bit half-led or half-promoted by the President or his surrogates.

    As to "financed", I don't know where the money would even go. There will be a need for more wool knit caps soon. There seems to be a natural unending supply of cardboard for signs, sidewalks and tent insulation.

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  28. AnonymousOctober 20, 2011 at 2:59 PM

    @Bram... eyes wide open but you still don't
    see

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  29. Bram ReichbaumOctober 20, 2011 at 3:51 PM

    I hold firm to 3/8ths true. More true here than in a lot of places maybe. There are more than a few unpredictable elements to this.

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  30. AnonymousOctober 20, 2011 at 11:35 PM

    Poseur,Nate Glosser , Spokesman for OWS-Pittsburgh!!
    and many more of the unwashed at BNY Mellon!

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  31. Bram ReichbaumOctober 21, 2011 at 2:52 AM

    Anon 11:35 - Der Schlag Heap has notes on that story:

    http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A102097

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  32. MHOctober 21, 2011 at 8:40 AM

    I don't get it. He's better about paying his taxes than the secretary of the treasury is.

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  33. AnonymousOctober 21, 2011 at 11:12 AM

    Bram read it before I posted...Poseur just the same, wealthy poseur at that. Meanwhile Potter encourages masks so the poseurs can hide their identity .Gotta love the hypocrisy of it all !!!

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  34. Mark RauterkusOctober 22, 2011 at 5:53 AM

    The movement's title should not be NUTS and BOLTS. Some other name to hold it together like glue is needed.

    S C R E W E D sorta works.

    It's a root meaning of, "to occupy" too.

    This is still in the phase of sharing just how much we are sick of it (getting screwed).

    Later we'll start to ponder solutions.

    Some already have done this, ... such as Audits and Ending the Federal Reserve.

    People are getting up to speed, but it is going to take some time yet.

    Finally, the 800 Billion in bail outs is not as large as the 5 TRILLION in recent WARS.

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  35. EdHeathOctober 22, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    rich, still with the doctrinaire Republican talking points. You really think that letting companies pollute more will create jobs (more healthcare aides for emphysema patients?). You think that if you disparage climate change, it will somehow go away? That our future has *no* solar and/or wind, or that we should buy it only from the Chinese and Germans?

    And OBVIOUSLY stimulus plans are temporary. If you actually want to have a conversation, about issues rich ... I mean the right and the left could agree on, feel free. Otherwise go ahead, be the champion of the rich in the class war. The rest of us will be trying to find jobs for the unemployed.

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  36. rich10eOctober 22, 2011 at 11:05 AM

    Hi Eduardo, I hope you're not camping out! Give a hoot, who said pollute? The best we'll get to agreeing is the need for jobs. Get rid of the impediments to job creation.How about some regulatory reform. Oh and i'm still a registered Democrat and yes there are thousands of more like me in Pgh who don't agree with the leftist agenda of OWS. I'm thinking of riding my bike into town today to see the show. Hope you're there.Take care
    Rich

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  37. rich10eOctober 28, 2011 at 3:35 PM

    @ED Heath, Uncle Ed said, "but the idea that cutting regulations, repealing the ACA, cutting taxes for the rich and cutting spending (i.e. unemployment compensation, food stamps, Medicare and Social Security) will create jobs is pure fantasy." However, it seems CMU Prof. Alan Metzler agrees with me...his article "Four Reasons Keynesians Keep Getting It Wrong"
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204777904576651532721267002.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

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